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Chicago Finally To Have Concealed Carry

joan1984 · 2635

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Offline joan1984

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on: July 01, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
Chicago repares for new
concealed carry gun law

Associated Press
DON BABWIN June 28, 2013 PoliticsChicago

CHICAGO (AP) — This city, where violent street gangs shoot it out dozens of times a week despite some of the nation's toughest restrictions on guns, now faces a new challenge: Well-meaning citizens with the legal right to hit the streets with loaded firearms, whenever they want.

As Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn mulls whether to sign off on eliminating the country's last concealed carry ban, the question in Chicago is whether it will matter in the crime-weary city. Will a place that long had one of the tightest bans on handguns be more at risk? Or will it be safer with a law that can only add to the number of guns already on the street?

Neighborhood leaders, anti-crime activists and police officials worry about additional mayhem in Chicago. But other residents, including some who live in Chicago's more violent areas, believe more guns will allow them to defend themselves better.

"We just had a weekend where something like 48 people were shot, seven died," said Otis McDonald, 79, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that ended with the U.S. Supreme Court tossing out Chicago's strict gun ban three years ago. "Now law abiding citizens like myself ... can carry them when they want to and not carry them when they don't want to, and the people out there who will do us harm won't know when we got them and when we don't."

At City Hall, where Chicago's anti-gun campaign has centered for years, the reaction to concealed carry legislation has been relatively quiet. The reasons seem to boil down to this: The city can do little about stopping the law because a federal appeals court ordered Illinois to end its public possession ban by this summer.
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"We would prefer to have the (gun) bans we've always enacted... (but) it's the best we could do based upon the mandate we have," said Alderman Patrick O'Connor.

The bill sitting on Quinn's desk is a hard-fought compromise between conservative downstate lawmakers who opposed most gun restrictions and anti-gun lawmakers from Chicago and other urban areas. The legislation requires state police to issue a concealed-carry permit to any gun owner with a state-issued Firearm Owners Identification card, and who passes a background check, pays a $150 fee and undergoes 16 hours of training.

It's not as stringent as concealed carry laws in California, New York and a handful of others states, which give law enforcement authorities more power to deny permits. But it's more restrictive than earlier proposals by gun rights advocates, including one that would have superseded all local gun restrictions. For example, it won't wipe out Chicago and Cook County's ban on assault weapons.

Most significantly for gun control advocates, the legislation does prohibit guns in places like schools, buses, trains, bars and government buildings.

"If you think about all the prohibited places there are ... I don't think you will see an overwhelming number of people actually (carrying weapons) because it becomes such a headache," said state Sen. Kwame Raoul, a Chicago lawmaker and lead negotiator on the bill who represents President Barack Obama's former state senate district.
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But other city officials aren't so assured. Superintendent Garry McCarthy calls a requirement that people go through only 16 hours of training before they are issued a concealed carry permit "woefully inadequate" because about the only thing people can learn in that time is how to "point and fire a weapon" and not when they can legally do so.

"Our officers receive six months of training in the police academy and then three months on the streets and at the end of the day we make mistakes frequently," he said.

Another concern by Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart is the provision in the bill that calls for law enforcement and prosecutors to object to a governor-appointed panel if they suspect applicants are dangerous. In Cook County, where there are 358,000 registered gun owners, Dart said he's worried gang members and others who shouldn't have guns will slip through the cracks and be granted permits.

Quinn, a Chicago Democrat, has been quiet on his intentions with the legislation, his office saying he's "reviewing the bill carefully." But what he decides may be moot, given that the Legislature passed it by wide enough margins to override any veto.

Once the law is in place, Dart said he expects a flood of applications for permits, something that happened in November 2011 in Wisconsin, where within hours of becoming the 49th state to have a concealed carry law, tens of thousands of people downloaded applications. By the end of 2012, the state had issued nearly 110,000 permits.
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During 2012, the first full year the law was in effect, Milwaukee's total for homicides and rapes remained virtually the same as the year before. As for robbery, the kind of crime that concealed carry supporters say would be reduced if more regular citizens had weapons, Milwaukee saw a 17.2 percent drop between 2011 and 2012. But police say so far this year the number of robberies has climbed by 19 percent.

Whether the law will have similar effects in Chicago is a matter of contention. Rev. Michael Pfleger, a Catholic priest and activist on the city's South Side, doesn't believe criminals will hesitate out of some concern their victims might be armed.

"You are going to see a lot more gun fights and you are going to see people using guns as their first line of defense when they are confronted. To think guns are suddenly going to be the answer to violence in the city or the state, it's absurd," Pfleger said.

But Richard Pearson, Illinois State Rifle Association executive director, predicts Chicago's crime rate will fall. He argues that both sides in the gun debate will be watching closely what transpires.

"What goes on in Chicago is a very big deal because of their history of resisting firearm use," Pearson said.

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but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline chris r

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Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 01:41:44 PM
Glad to see this happen



Offline Gina Marie

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Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 11:01:52 PM
KILL EM ALL!



Offline Dgan

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Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 11:58:38 PM
I am curious to see what the real statistics will be in a year, but then we will never truly know. I would venture that any group making them will slant them to their own ends and you can henpeck which stats you want to use to make your case.  If it drives down crime so much the better, but at least Chicago has no choice but to recognize people's rights over the cities for a change.

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Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 04:03:34 AM
Here's one way of looking at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBjzdvSloG8


After THAT experience, do you think those punks said, "Well, we just have to get right back on that horse we fell off of?"  Or do you think, after they finished scrambling, they thought, "JeHEYsus!  Maybe this career ain't so safe after all?"


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Offline joan1984

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Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 04:10:38 AM
Woo, mrmpetcock! Great example of "a good guy with a gun"...

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 04:38:28 AM
Woo, mrmpetcock! Great example of "a good guy with a gun"...


Wow!  Who knew this gay man would be so good at pleasing a woman.   :emot_laughing:


Here's another:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey11D4wzxHE


You go, Granny!!!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 04:40:14 AM by m4mpetcock »

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Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 04:48:49 AM
the playing field is leveled, and this would be a case study a year later. one would not look at shooting deaths, as that is gang and drug motivate, but look at break-ins, and mugging types of crime.



Offline Gina Marie

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Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 05:04:44 AM



Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 02:50:23 PM
Things would have been a lot bloodier if this guy didn't have a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya2Kx9qSa_g

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Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 02:58:47 PM
My Gun Saved My Life! True Story of a Legally Armed Citizen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gP8W37c-Y


And the narrator states, so very truthfully, that there is no database that reports on crimes thwarted by law-abiding gun owners. 

I can resist anything but temptation.  - Oscar Wilde


Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
Obama orders gun report oopsie! Proves guns save lives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qDBOp-qaXs


White House Study Finds Guns Save Lives: 'Consistently Lower Injury Rates Among Gun Using Crime Victims'

http://lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo161.html






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Offline redhatlover

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Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 03:56:02 PM
I wish the news media would report more on how people defend themselves instead of replaying over and over various atrocities.  Our mainstream media seems to want to convey the notion that guns are bad and only criminals (or people with bad intentions) have them instead of showing law-abiding people using them for defense.  It is not "How many rounds do you need to kill a deer?", but it is "How many rounds do you need to defend yourself and your family?"

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 04:08:45 PM
In the post of a guy who drew down on an intruder, and detained him, given the facts that he arrived home, noticed that there had been a break-in and then personally held the intruder at gun point BEFORE calling 911 put him in a position that the police routinely say do not enter into.

His actions would have made him liable under the law if things had gone south, and if the intruder had been hot or killed would have made the homeowner libel to prosecution.

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Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 04:45:26 PM
In the post of a guy who drew down on an intruder, and detained him, given the facts that he arrived home, noticed that there had been a break-in and then personally held the intruder at gun point BEFORE calling 911 put him in a position that the police routinely say do not enter into.

His actions would have made him liable under the law if things had gone south, and if the intruder had been hot or killed would have made the homeowner libel to prosecution.

An awful lot of "what if's" there, Katiebee.    What if the homeowner didn't have a gun?  There's also the possibility he might not have lived to tell his story, considering there are so many cases of "he saw my face".....


Me?  I'd rather run the risk of going to jail for having a gun than going to my grave for not having one.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 04:47:38 PM by m4mpetcock »

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 04:53:29 PM
In the story he entered after he knew the intruder was inside. That is the operative what-if. He walked into harm's way intentionally.

All others are completely different situations.

Police really aren't too keen on vigilante actions, and civilians engaging in potential gunfights.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 05:09:04 PM by Katiebee »

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Offline m4mpetcock

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Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 05:15:28 PM
In the story he entered after he knew the intruder was inside. That is the operative what-if. He walked into harm's way intentionally.

All others are completely different situations.

Police really aren't too keen on vigilante actions, and civilians engaging in potential gunfights.


Human nature being what it is, many people without guns may have walked into the same situation, unknowingly.  The come home.  They see their door ajar.  They rush in to see what someone did to their house.  Adrenaline works in mysterious ways. 

I can resist anything but temptation.  - Oscar Wilde


Offline Katiebee

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Reply #17 on: July 02, 2013, 05:18:33 PM
Yes, I agree. However, the common direction is to call the police first and do not enter.

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
Do you really want an emotionally overwrought, and armed, person rushing into a potentially fatal confrontation?

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #19 on: July 02, 2013, 05:36:49 PM
Are we speaking of the same story? The one I read left me believing the home owner saw the intruder thru the window, and was outside the home, held the intruder at gunpoint, and called the police. The intruder remained inside the home, while some bricks and mortar protected the homeowner.

In the story he entered after he knew the intruder was inside. That is the operative what-if. He walked into harm's way intentionally.

All others are completely different situations.

Police really aren't too keen on vigilante actions, and civilians engaging in potential gunfights.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.