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Sequester 2013

joan1984 · 7606

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Offline Partner

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Reply #60 on: February 28, 2013, 05:45:10 AM
Thanks for the reply, Katie.

As far as the red states taking more than they give, that pretty well describes the federal government over the last decade or so.  The imbalance won't last; eventually, nobody will loan money to cover the deficit, and there will likely be a combination of cuts along with forced inflation via printing.  The balance of the two is the only real question.

But the level of federal service that's being offered is completely unsustainable.  The sooner it's cut down to size, the less cutting is involved.  It should have been cut back around 2002-ish or so, but here we are.  That we haven't cut back since then is only making the final endgame worse.

Setting the Christian ethic aside - both parties are running the federal finances into the ground.  Neither is willing to risk the votes in the next election to do their job and fix things.   FWIW, I'm rather anti-federalist in my preferences because states have a more immediate need to account for their actions, and can't get into as deep of a hole.

We can  point fingers at the "other" party all night long, but when the sun rises, the system will be broken.  The sooner, the less painful.  But no matter what, there will be pain.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #61 on: February 28, 2013, 05:45:37 AM
Four years of the party of No. And now another four years of the same.

Damned by their own voice.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Partner

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Reply #62 on: February 28, 2013, 05:46:44 AM
Four years of the party of No. And now another four years of the same.

Damned by their own voice.

Toss both parties out.  Neither has done anything of value so far as the long term is concerned.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #63 on: February 28, 2013, 05:56:10 AM
I won't split hairs about that.

However, understand that our form of government requires compromise to work. If one of the parties refuses to compromise it breaks the system. The Republican party publicly created the precedent. They are branded, tainted by it if you will. Until they come around and start working to govern in good faith, there isn't much I can say in their favor.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


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Reply #64 on: February 28, 2013, 06:00:12 AM
Fair enough, though I don't think anything the Democrats have done could rightly be called compromise either.  Both parties excel at beating drums to satisfy their base.  Neither party is willing to take the steps necessary to bring things under control because such steps will involve pain, which they believe will lead to a loss of votes.  And the Almighty Vote is the god they serve.

Bread and circuses, each to their own fashion.



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Reply #65 on: February 28, 2013, 06:02:19 AM
I gotta head out.  You'd probably label me as a conservative, which ... whatever, but know that I am certainly no Republican.  And thanks again for the discussion, even if I did little more than vent.

/handshake

Much respect.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #66 on: February 28, 2013, 06:05:24 AM
Well, Pres. Obama has repeatedly offered compromises, but the Republicans have usually walked away from them. I don't know the details of their discussions, but on the surface it only makes them look bad, especially their spin on the offers. You have to remember that the compromises that have been offered were at the expense of the Presidents base, and caused no end of rancor there. If he is willing to go against his own party, and lose votes, the Republicans should be more willing to compromise with what their base wants as well. The last few times have had the appearance of the President giving up more than the Republicans.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


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Reply #67 on: February 28, 2013, 06:53:07 AM

So wait foxnews is biased but we can link to msnbc to prove points? Lol. No one sidedness there.:)

Well if you believe President Obama does not have a plan, Google it yourself.  This is the point of the video.

Quote
You're right Obama did offer a plan to congress, one that could not even be passed by his own party. If democrats wouldn't vote for it how can you sit there and vilify republicans for not voting for it either?

That plan, as Joan pointed out, was in 2011.  It is 2013 now.



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Reply #68 on: February 28, 2013, 01:49:58 PM

So wait foxnews is biased but we can link to msnbc to prove points? Lol. No one sidedness there.:)

Well if you believe President Obama does not have a plan, Google it yourself.  This is the point of the video.

Quote
You're right Obama did offer a plan to congress, one that could not even be passed by his own party. If democrats wouldn't vote for it how can you sit there and vilify republicans for not voting for it either?

That plan, as Joan pointed out, was in 2011.  It is 2013 now.

For me the video demonstrates a hypocrisy of trashing on one flavor of biased news and using the other as a source of fact.

2011 2013 what's the difference? 99-1 or whichever shows a lack of willingness to be even reasonable or realistic. A lack of willingness to negotiate should still yield a vote of 48ish to 48ish. Or are you trying to tell me Obama has had another 'evolution' of his beliefs and is now really really trying?



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Reply #69 on: February 28, 2013, 02:47:44 PM
So our President, like in the story of Chicken Little, is running around telling all that the proverbial sky is falling when the truth be told he and Congress created these spending cuts as a way to bluff the Republican controlled House into increasing taxes on the wealthy, thinking they would cave in before the cuts actually materialize.  Looks like they called his bluff and now he has to worry about his legacy as president.

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.


Offline Katiebee

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Reply #70 on: February 28, 2013, 07:33:09 PM
@snowm you assume that democrats vote en bloc like Republican have tended to do overhead last 20 years. They do not. Your assumption is false.

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snowm

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Reply #71 on: February 28, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
@snowm you assume that democrats vote en bloc like Republican have tended to do overhead last 20 years. They do not. Your assumption is false.

um no dear I do not. I am assuming however that since not one, or just one democrat senator voted to approve Obama's proposed budget that the plan itself wasn't worth the paper it was written on...to either party. That demonstrates an inability or unwillingness to compromise, simple as that.



Offline Partner

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Reply #72 on: February 28, 2013, 11:06:07 PM
@snowm you assume that democrats vote en bloc like Republican have tended to do overhead last 20 years. They do not. Your assumption is false.

So the Tea Party was a breath of fresh air, then, what with all that not voting with the rest of the party and all.  ;-)

More seriously, I really don't think either party can point fingers at the other regarding party line voting.  The entire organizational structure they both use (i.e. whips, time to gauge voting intents, etc.) is designed to determine when the party members can vote to pander to their home base and when they must vote en bloc.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #73 on: March 01, 2013, 01:20:13 AM
I agree partner that that is the organization of the two houses. I point to voting records that show that the Democrats tend to not vote as a bloc like the Republicans do. The Republican Party platform is much more monolithic and regimented.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline joan1984

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Reply #74 on: March 01, 2013, 02:54:40 AM
President Obama does not negotiate in good faith.

That is why no Democrat has voted for an Obama budget; none want their fingerprints on it. Not in 2009, not in 2010, not in 2011, not in 2012, and no 2013 Budget Plan has been submitted for 2013 by the President, through his Office of Management and Budget Director.

It was due in October 2012, as it is each year for every recent President, so as to allow Congress complete guidance as they write the details. While other Presidents have not always been on deadline, the fact remains, no one will be able to quote the Presidents wishes but his teleprompter. Not while anyone is paying any attention.

In 2008 Democrats wrote NO budget, submitted NO budget President Bush would sign for 2008, delayed submission of the 2008 Budget in order to get some key Democrat priorities knowing President Obama would abandon his pledges, and rubber stamp it early in 2009. He managed to include TARP in Bush's 2008 Budget, he pushed through on a All Democrat lockstep vote his 850 Billion Stimulus Bill, and continues to receive at least that amount in every baseline budget since, managing to squander not only the Stimulus (a supposed one time deal) repeated for 6 years and counting, with only the Democrat votes on the original bill, and NO votes since. 4 Trillion and counting extra, deficit spending in under 4 years!

The low information and high dependency voters have not the interest, for today or for the Nation's future, to understand and care; and are stampeded on cue by social net statements by the Administration, no questions answered. No news here, move along.

Well, Pres. Obama has repeatedly offered compromises, but the Republicans have usually walked away from them. I don't know the details of their discussions, but on the surface it only makes them look bad, especially their spin on the offers. You have to remember that the compromises that have been offered were at the expense of the Presidents base, and caused no end of rancor there. If he is willing to go against his own party, and lose votes, the Republicans should be more willing to compromise with what their base wants as well. The last few times have had the appearance of the President giving up more than the Republicans.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Athos131

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Reply #75 on: March 01, 2013, 03:03:29 AM
And... here we go again.

I hate Obama. 

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I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama.

Well, Pres. Obama has repeatedly offered compromises, but the Republicans have usually walked away from them. I don't know the details of their discussions, but on the surface it only makes them look bad, especially their spin on the offers. You have to remember that the compromises that have been offered were at the expense of the Presidents base, and caused no end of rancor there. If he is willing to go against his own party, and lose votes, the Republicans should be more willing to compromise with what their base wants as well. The last few times have had the appearance of the President giving up more than the Republicans.




Offline joan1984

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Reply #76 on: March 01, 2013, 03:56:48 AM
Steven, go sit at the children's table, dear.

Take your meds!  :aol_smurfingit:

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Athos131

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Reply #77 on: March 01, 2013, 04:04:35 AM



Offline joan1984

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Reply #78 on: March 01, 2013, 07:16:51 PM
Day One, Sequester 2013. Do you feel more free? You may add more to the tax you pay, to save a "whatever" you are interested in saving. Mail it in, any amount you wish. No need to wait until April 15. One way you can give the use of your money, is to overpay by any amount, and elect to carry forward until a future year. A no interest loan you make, so you feel better if necessary. A nondeductible gift is perfectly acceptable as well.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Katiebee

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Reply #79 on: March 01, 2013, 07:25:26 PM
Or to take a page from some of the more vocal "conservatives" one finds lamenting the budget crisis (and no, I'm referring to people who are not in this board) " I ain't gonna support no freeloaders what don't pay nuthing more 'n what I do."
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:27:12 PM by Katiebee »

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