A question to our members about visual lifestyle choices

[coacheric]

Something came up during the weekend that got my wife and I wondering. I wanted to post it on the site but not sure where it should go. I figure here is the best spot to start it out.

I will start it out saying that I figure that there will be members that want to bash me for asking because I didn't write this as well as I could have or should not even be wondering this. I mean nothing bad in asking, only knowledge in understanding our thoughts and the POV from someone that may have gone through it while growing up

We have a friend that has 2 girls. We have known them for around 10 years now. The youngest is very much a tomboy and always has been. Wife and I joke now that she appears to be a young boy more than a girl. Short hair, Mohawks, heavy into sports, never any makeup or girlie type clothing. We are happy that the mother does not force the standard stereotype things at her and she can be who she is. She may just be trying to figure out who she is and as being younger (age not important other than to say younger) the way she dresses and acts has nothing to do with any type of sexuality (where I felt I may get kicked)

 We also felt that there are a lot of parents that would force the stereotype ideas on their child and that may lead to outlash from the child growing up and even suicide possably. Now we may be way of base with them type of thoughts and why I thought I would ask here on the board.

I was wondering, for our members that are gay, lesbian and BI, were they out to their family and were the family supportive. Were standard stereotypes pushed on you?

[DemonDelight]

I'm Bisexual and for me, I wouldn't say a stereotype was pushed on me, however I was never able to open about my sexuality. My mother taught me early on where babies really come from, but I only ever was told about the basics, not how pleasurable it could be or anything (of course I was so young when she had this discussion that wouldn't have been appropriate) but we never talked about it again.

I was raised in a baptist home and was told homosexuality was wrong. No exceptions so when I started getting feelings for my best friend I didn't feel I could go to my mother with it.

My step dad pushed me into sports because he said I was too fat (I was kind of a chunky kid, but I wasn't fat) throughout high school he was always commenting on how I needed to stay active or I'd get fat. He was always commenting on my weight. After my parents caught me making out with a girl, I was kicked out of the house and after essentially being homeless for two weeks they invited me back, but had made a contract for me to sign stating I would not engage in homosexual activities or thoughts and I was to go to church every Sunday.

Since then my sexuality has been a secret. I ended up overcompensating by trying to please every man I encountered any way I could. I was the poster child of "Daddy Issues" lol

[Katiebee]

Some of the standard cultural stereotypes are to protect women. That said not all do an adequate job, and most are used to fit you into a standard way of life. The stronger of us modify these as we become older.

I had a mom and dad who insisted that I learn how to dress and comport myself as a lady. On the other hand they both believed that basic life skills included being able to do for one's self without consideration of traditional gender or sexual stereotypes.

So my brothers and I were all encouraged to try sports, to run wild in the wilderness, but we were expected to know how to act in civilized company without scandalizing others. We all learned how to cook, clean, sew, knit, balance a Checkbook, change a tire, shoot a gun, set a table, change a diaper, take care of one another, defend yourself.

I think my dad wouldn't care if any of us wanted to date one-eyed episcopalian kangaroos of our own gender. As long as we weren't disrespectful of others, and the kangaroo was house-trained. My mom wanted us to be happy and true to ourselves.

[TinyDancer]

Hopefully there will come a day when a person's sexuality won't matter and people can just be what they are. 

[DemonDelight]

Hopefully there will come a day when a person's sexuality won't matter and people can just be what they are. 

I couldn't agree more

[Janus]

I was called queer by my mother before I knew what it meant. I had a bit of a feminine bent I suppose. I was more than encouraged to play sports. Thank God I enjoyed them. I was befriended early by lesbians and Bi college kids where I summered during break from school. I was only 11 or 12 all the way up to my late teens. Oddly, my father knew the folks I was hanging with and he was cool with it.

I don't know. I was pretty damn confused about things growing up. It has carried on through my adulthood. I was sexually exploited at a very young age. I thought it was the norm to do the things I did.

I will encourage parents to listen and observe their kids. Keep an open mind and an even more open heart. Growing up is confusing enough.

Janus

[MissBarbara]

Something came up during the weekend that got my wife and I wondering. I wanted to post it on the site but not sure where it should go. I figure here is the best spot to start it out...

. . . . .

I was wondering, for our members that are gay, lesbian and BI, were they out to their family and were the family supportive. Were standard stereotypes pushed on you?

I think this is a perfect question, and you should be applauded -- and not bashed -- for asking it.

It's a common assumption these days that gender roles forced upon children in their youth and early adolescence determine -- positively or negatively -- their self image and, correspondingly, their perception of their sexual orientation. I've long believed that this is not as true as popularly perceived, certainly not as a universal.

Of course, it's wonderful that these parents let this young woman be herself. In that way, she can be herself, learn about herself, determine who she really is, and live her life accordingly. But I also believe the fact that "she appears to be a young boy more than a girl. Short hair, Mohawks, heavy into sports, never any makeup or girlie type clothing" may have absolutely no bearing on her sexual orientation, neither as it actually is, nor as she perceives it.

Her tomboyishness might mean nothing other than she's a tomboy. It might be who she is -- irrespective of sexual orientation -- and it might be a pose she's affecting, e.g. a reaction to her older sister, or her mother, or society in general.

Or it might mean she's a butch lesbian coming into herself.

It's very complicated...

[joan1984]

  "I think my dad wouldn't care if any of us wanted to date one-eyed episcopalian kangaroos of our own gender. As long as we weren't disrespectful of others, and the kangaroo was house-trained. My mom wanted us to be happy and true to ourselves.   {/quote]

  "Hopefully there will come a day when a person's sexuality won't matter and people can just be what they are."

I agree!

[Serviceman]

Based on my past experiences, it seems to to me the  question posed entails cultural factors as well as personal/familial experiences. Indeed, I've noted sexual orientation issues are sometimes more easily handled or accepted in the workplace than at home or amongst friends. Another significant factor is the cultural sophistication of the area involved. In this regard there's a huge differential between various parts of North America.
Nevertheless, friend coacheric, you posed a 'meaty' question and for my part I've not had the freedom, in my judgement, to open declare the sexual preferences. Perhaps because from an intellectual standpoint, I consider for example, the gender & sexual orientation of the cat & dog in Schroedinger's cat dichotomy, or Pavlov's dog experiments totally irrelevant.

[MissBarbara]

I've noted sexual orientation issues are sometimes more easily handled or accepted in the workplace than at home or amongst friends.

That's an excellent point, Serviceman!

[Katiebee]

I've noted sexual orientation issues are sometimes more easily handled or accepted in the workplace than at home or amongst friends.

That's an excellent point, Serviceman!

Well, everyone got along fairly well in Yugoslavia, until Tito died. Then they all tried to kill each other.
When force of law steps in, it can be easier.

[TinyDancer]

I would Woo you again Toe if I could....for hugging and kissing your kids daily.  Let's them know how much they are loved, unconditionally loved. 

[coacheric]

I did WOO him twice. That's great advice for ALL parents to follow. My wife and I have the same relationship with our kids. We tell them all the time that we love them, we hug, we talk.

They tell us they love us as they leave the house and say it in front of their friends also.

Toe, you are a great dad and I'm sure your kids are great also because of it.

[coacheric]

I felt the need to post some additional follow up here.

I got 2 WOO for my post. I appreciate that but I felt I needed to comment because of the WOO.

I don't feel that I am a great dad. I do things wrong and there are days my kids hate me. I always tell them that even on the days it seems that I hate them, I don't. I don't want them to make some of the same mistakes I made. I want them to get good grades, go to college and get a career, not just a job. I want them to respect everyone, not just adults.

We do a good job with all of that. WE get a lot of their friends saying how they are surprised that we eat dinner together, we ask how their day was, what kind of homework they have. We have heard from many parents that they love the way our kids act and how they treat others while away from the house.

I didn't post this to get a pat on the back or anything else. I posted it to say that I am human, just like the rest of us and just like my kids. I make mistakes and try and learn from them.

[TinyDancer]

Eric, of course you do things wrong and of course they hate you at times...because you are human.  But the thing is, you love them and they know that.  They will never have to wonder in years to come, "Why didn't my father love me or why wasn't I good enough."

You deserved those woos sugar!   

[DemonDelight]

I have serious Daddy issues, so for me to hear about not one, but two dads who are supportive of their children and tell them each and every day that they are loved, that is well worth the recognition. No one is perfect, we all have our oops moments, but when you try your best to do what's right for your kids, that's what really counts.

So shut up and take your woos dammit 

[MissBarbara]

I still cry anytime I see a movie with father-son issues... I still cry on Father's Day.  Sometimes the best teachers are the ones who show you how *not* to do something.  Feel your pain, but this "dad doesn't love me" shit ends THIS GENERATION.
 

You -- and Eric -- both deserve a huge basketful of woo's for your posts here!

[DemonDelight]

Sometimes the best teachers are the ones who show you how *not* to do something.  Feel your pain, but this "dad doesn't love me" shit ends THIS GENERATION.

This is why I encourage my husband to spend time with our daughter, and he does. Every once in a while he takes her to see a movie and she sits with him while he does stuff with his cards. I wish he did that more often, but she knows he loves her. That is so important to me and I'm starting to get connected with my dad. He's cleaned up his life quite a bit so we're giving it a shot

[coacheric]

I understand DD.  My own father has said "I love you" twice in my half century life, and one of those times I made him say it just to prove he was capable of enunciating those words...  He has not spoken to me in more than a decade and refuses to have anything to do with two of his sons, and his five grandkids.  That is a huge motivator on my part.

I still cry anytime I see a movie with father-son issues... I still cry on Father's Day.  Sometimes the best teachers are the ones who show you how *not* to do something.  Feel your pain, but this "dad doesn't love me" shit ends THIS GENERATION.

FUCKER, I hate you!  

My dad was always there for me, more than I ever really knew until he past. I hate myself somedays for not looking forward to the Sunday phone calls from him. Thats my only day off of work and he would want to talk about the shop every Sunday. I drove the 8 1/2 hour drive in 7 hours and sat next to the hospital bed until he past.

He told me every week that he loved me/us and I will never forget that. I don't want my kids to ever forget that either.

[MissBarbara]

I LOVE the way this thread has side-tracked!

I also love the way that all three of you have mentioned the importance of a parent's "being there" for their children.

My Mom and I always end our phone conversations and emails with "I love you." Sure, it's a reflexive thing, but that doesn't mean the words don't have meaning. And we both know they do -- even when they don't.

My Dad, on the other hand, is a very un-demonstrative man. Saying "I love you" just isn't his thing, and his most outward sign of affection is a quick hug when he meets me at the airport. But he does tell me that he's proud of me, and he tells me how happy it makes him when there I'm on one of my trips home. And that, to me, is exactly the same thing as saying, "I love you."