Is George Bush a traitor?

[Pan]

Do you not get that these people are in an active war attempting to kill every single person that does not believe like them?  It is not just against Americans either.

The perfect freedom fighters.   

[MedievalDom]

Avataroftruth,
I am dyslexic, always have been, the ability to spell or not does not point to intelligence or lack thereof.  I take your point though.
On that note
There is nothing wrong with me; I have a perspective that allows me to view things up close and personal. 
It is fine to question the any branch of government, it may even be one’s duty, but the mistake people make is thinking this is a right.  Under the US Constitution it IS a right, however the reality is it is a privilege that can be taken away.  Not by the President  of the United Sates, saying that he (President Bush or any other President) is going to do so is, as was said earlier, bullshit.  That privilege can be taken away by almost any criminal or political group that is in the world today.  All it takes to do this is the proper persuasion, the kind that comes in a book bag; on some ones back in any crowd in the US.
 Have you considered a tactical reason for keeping who we have and do not have a secret?  It is not a matter of hiding it from citizens of the US as much as it is keeping in place as long as possible any contacts and cells an individual may be working with while we get that information from a detainee, and that only if these prisoners are hidden away somewhere.  There are no ovens, gas chambers and pillows filled with human hair.  I sincerely hope you do not believe that is what is going on.  Has anyone considered that these reports are nothing more than fabrications to further someone’s or some group’s political aims?  Education and intelligence is not lacking among those that we as a nation are fighting.  One can down load the bulk of Al Qaida’s operational manual from the internet and see that misinformation is part of their standard operating procedures.  Anyone that fallows politics at all knows that misinformation is part of the way business is done in the US, so one may want to consider that in these claims as well.   
Pan
Was that an attempt at humor?   
They are not freedom fighters, they are murders and thugs.  You do realize that just by coming to a web forum like this one it puts you on there list of kill on sight, or by supporting women getting medical treatment, or an education?  Here is a little known fact about these freedom fighters, one of the things they will do to enforce their ‘freedom’ is to burn down schools in Afghanistan that teach girls, teachers of girls are shot.  In smaller villages they will round every one up and tell them that if the school is rebuilt they will come back and cut the noses and ears from any girl that goes to the school.  In larger towns they (the Taliban) leave IEDs in front of any school that teaches girls.  These are not things I have read about in the news; these are things I have seen with my own eyes.  Remember Buddhas of Bamyan?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan The Taliban blew these up claiming idolatry, the truth of the matter was economics.  The people that live in Bamyan are not from the same ethnic group as the Taliban and made considerable money from the tourists coming to see the buddahs.  The Taliban destroyed them in order to control and keep down these people. As you read down keep in mind that the village of Bamyan is at the base of these and that the Taliban fired artillery at the buddahs for nearly a month. 
 

[celebrity]

I'm a McGovern-Democrat who voted for John Anderson over Carter/Reagan in '80, because of his 'flat tax' proposals.

All this "Bush should be impeached because he's traitor"-crap started when Clinton outrightly lied-under-oath about that woman... as if phrasing it like that would have us gullible yokels believing Lewinsky was a psychotic stalker.  (wow, if the Islamic-fanatyx only knew how easy it would've been to deep-6 an American president, through a 20-something extroverted femme.)

Next, Bush forgot the Pakistani president's name.  But Gore remembered it.  Big effing deal... 

Finally, the amount of people who didn't understand how the Electoral College-system was implemented in 2000. sealed Bush's fate.  (gee, let's let New York and California elect every president till the end of time... the other 48 states should just butt-out.)  BTW, every liberal investigative reporter in Florida concluded that the Democrat-designed ballot had Buchanan's name almost perfectly aligned-with Gore's vote-box.



--'perfect freedom fighters'?...  You forgot to spell 'perfekt' in the correct late 30's/early 40's National Socialist vein. 

Yeah...  Al Qaida, meet Al Capone...

[ebilbob]

Purposefully exposing the identity of a covert operative has been defined legally as falling within the definition of giving Aid to the enemies of the United States. 

I call bullshit on this, and I'd like to see some empirical evidence to support your claim.

The phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes readily to mind. No matter how good it feels to label George Bush a traitor, wishing does not make it so. Is he a criminal? Obviously. But a traitor? Those in this thread supporting the moniker are stretching their logic very thin. As I said, there is a very specific definition in US law for acts of treason, and trying to redefine it to fit a person you despise only sets a nasty precedent.   

So as it turns out, you are correct and I was remembering the information incorrectly.  It seems that it's only the opinion of W's father that disclosing the identity of an operative is treason.  Oh, and it's also W's opinion...as long as you're talking about the NYT publishing the name of a non-covert agent.

But while it's a federal crime to deliberately reveal the identity of a covert agent, it hasn't been grouped under treason.  Probably because up until W did it, no one even considered that they could get away with it, but that's beside the point.

As far as a "nasty" precedent goes, I'm not at all certain that prosecuting someone for treason as a result of their purposeful exposure of a covert agent would be a bad precedent at all.  You have to realize that when Bush's lapdogs exposed Plame's identity, they didn't just put her life in danger, they compromised every single operative that was associated with the company she was using as her cover at the time.  That amounted to dozens of agents, many of whom were covert at the time of Plame's outing.

Anyway, you win the war of semantics.  That's what I get for remembering a quote from one of the Bush clan and thinking it was true.

[ebilbob]

The first is hog wash, nicely put there is no proof to support your claim, never has been, (though it was fucked up to do)
and the second is the stretch of an over active imagination.  Again, you have claims that fall with in the parameters of your belief, but the simple fact of the matter is extremists do not need a tool, they simply hate because they are extreme.  That might seem a very simplistic explanation but the reality is it is that simple for people, they hate you (assuming you are an American) just because you are an American.  Because of what you have and supposedly what they do not have.  They would gladly cut your throat and put it on camera for the world to see for no other reason than to do it, and their hate for you based on nothing more than your place of birth.  Also remember these are the same people that took two mentally retarded girls, wired them with remote control devices and blew them up in a market that sells pets.  The first time I was there we had to speak to a family about there son who was a "suicide bomber" in an VBED, they told us it was imposable, why? Because he was mentally retarded as well and could not drive.   In the end the they had said to a young man who had never driven anything, "hey want to drive my car"   he did, and they used an remote to detonate him at a check point. 

Does that fall in your nice clean definition of 'recruiting'? 
90% of the time they do not target Americans or even Iraqi military and police. They target civilians.

What do you think they would do in say, New York City? or Boston, or any small town in the US?

stop watching just some news station that supports your views and take a hard look at what goes on out side your boarders.  Try the BBC, hell try Al Jazeera, even they report on the crap that happens in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Here is a novel idea for every one, Go out and do something constrictive about how you feel hell get a box of old clothing and donate it to some charity that sends it to Iraq and Afghanistan.  Or why not get a job with HALO trust and clear some minds from farm land so an Afghan village has more land to farm? Would you do that?

Was this a reply to me?  If so, next time quote me so I know.
Or type something that isn't so fucking retarded that I can't even discern if it's related to my post.
Your choice.

[stefanwolf]

Bush is not a traitor. Simple.  He is guilty of damageing our legacy as the bastion of freedom in the world.  I won't argue the validity or not of free speech zones; I will argue to hold someone indefinitely without charges is against the constitution.  I will argue to award no-bid contracts to companies with direct ties to the three top persons in the government is wrong and to thwart any attempt to hold them accountable for ineptitude is wrong.  To knowingly break laws and twist laws to suit you and your cronies is wrong.  To knowingly deceive the American People(ie the American government) is wrong.  I dont give a crap about whether it has been done before and if anybody was prosecuted -it is wrong.

That said, I had a son who served in Iraq and other places hes still not at liberty(under security regulations) to say. I still feel that the initial invasion of Irag was handled wrong.  I could see it as it was happening.  The lack of no stock piles of weapons, the lack of security to handle anarchy in the guise of looting, and more I saw.

 I do admire the dedication of our men and women in the armed forces. 

I dont admire the conduct of the Commander in Chief to send them into a war with a trumped up reason.

Oh and these insurgents/criminals who dont target our troops tell that to my son after surviving attacks on convoys after spending his first days in Iraq holding the hands and changing bandages of the Italian contingent.  Tell him that the countless bodies he escorted as an honor guard werent the target of insurgents/enemy/taliban/alquaida whatever.

[Lois]

AoT has proven that George Bush does not fit the legal definition of "traitor" according to the U.S. constitution, but you cannot convince me he has not betrayed the constitution and his oath to uphold it.

So I call him oath-breaker!

[AvatarofTruth]

I'm surprised that no one has wondered why the definition of traitor is spelled out in the constitution, when many other crimes are not constitutionally defined.

Under British rule, the accusation of traitor was applied broadly to all who disagreed with the crown, even mere verbal dissent. The framers intended to prevent this from ever happening in the newly formed America.

This is what I meant by nasty precedent. An excellent precedent would be to arrest President Bush as soon as he has left office, or to file charges against him at the Hague.

[celebrity]

AoT has proven that George Bush does not fit the legal definition of "traitor" according to the U.S. constitution, but you cannot convince me he has not betrayed the constitution and his oath to uphold it.

So I call him oath-breaker!

Well stated.  -And like AoT suggests, let Bush be hauled-before The Hague to clear the air once and for all. 

[Pan]

 
Pan
Was that an attempt at humor?   
They are not freedom fighters, they are murders and thugs. 

I like Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser on that topic.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html