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Should veterans be a privileged class?

Lois · 1698

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Offline Lois

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Reply #20 on: October 26, 2017, 06:47:48 PM
Military service would seem to build team and interpersonal skills. Embers a work ethic centered around mission completion. These skills increase as one ascends in rank to include planning skills, logistical awareness, and the big one that civilians don’t understand, leadership.

One would hope.  But sometimes it just enables people incapable of taking initiative in anything. They join the military because they want to wait around for orders.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #21 on: October 26, 2017, 07:22:59 PM
Some do, but that is part of the general population.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline watcher1

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Reply #22 on: October 29, 2017, 05:43:34 AM
Military service would seem to build team and interpersonal skills. Embers a work ethic centered around mission completion. These skills increase as one ascends in rank to include planning skills, logistical awareness, and the big one that civilians don’t understand, leadership.

I agree with both you and Lois.  The trouble I have with some veterans are that they game the system, filing claims for all types of disabilities and receiving them though they can, and did, retire from long held, and physically demanding jobs. Don't even get me started on the veterans I know that receive disability payments due to PTSD when their time served in Vietnam was in the motor pool at battalion headquarters.

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Offline mark_lp

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Reply #23 on: October 29, 2017, 02:28:36 PM
I made a paltry $501 a month when I joined in 1981. That's $1,270.86 in today's dollars. Big bucks! :emot_skull:  Like Katie said, it's the low pay and rotten conditions that one is dealing with. Not to mention, the time away from home.

That said, my left ear was blown out in 1982. I receive a paltry $133 a month in compensation. I have 20% of my hearing in that ear.

Damn right we're entitled for benefits, whether monetary or social (housing, etc).



Offline watcher1

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Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 04:05:09 PM
I made a paltry $501 a month when I joined in 1981. That's $1,270.86 in today's dollars. Big bucks! :emot_skull:  Like Katie said, it's the low pay and rotten conditions that one is dealing with. Not to mention, the time away from home.

That said, my left ear was blown out in 1982. I receive a paltry $133 a month in compensation. I have 20% of my hearing in that ear.

Damn right we're entitled for benefits, whether monetary or social (housing, etc).

In 1968, my pay was something like $98 a month. When I arrived for my all expense tour in sunny Southeast Asia, I immediately became a PFC and, with combat pay, I think I now made $175 a month. While there, I lost my hearing for a bit and now have severe ringing in my ears.  Don't know what those figures would mean in today's dollars though.

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Offline JBRG

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Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 05:15:19 PM
Military service would seem to build team and interpersonal skills. Embers a work ethic centered around mission completion. These skills increase as one ascends in rank to include planning skills, logistical awareness, and the big one that civilians don’t understand, leadership.

One would hope.  But sometimes it just enables people incapable of taking initiative in anything. They join the military because they want to wait around for orders.

Those who sit around simply waiting for orders to follow end up being the cannon fodder. Those who take initiative get promoted and eventually are the ones giving the orders.

In Canada, one of the biggest problems a veteran has is the lack of recognition of the qualifications they have received during their time in the service. We may be fully qualified to drive a tractor trailer unit with air brakes but have to requalify for a civilian license in order to get a job as a long haul trucker. The same goes for any of the trades.

I spent 3 years at the Canadian equivalent of an E-6 attached to a government, non-military agency doing the exact same job as my civilian counterparts. And doing it better than most of them. Yet, I cannot work there as a civilian because (and only because) I don't have a 4 year degree from a university. The 12 years of working in the field prior to being assigned to said agency and my 3 years of outstanding work there mean nothing to their HR folks.

Regarding veterans "scheming" the system as one poster had put forth citing a guy who spent the Vietnam war in the battalion HQ motor pool claiming PTSD, combat is not the only place that can cause PTSD. I personally know a former Canadian "service" man who was medically released from the Canadian Forces with PTSD caused by bullying. The quotes are because the guy was a musician which in the Canadian military is a specific trade and all they do is play music and pretend they can march on occasion. That said, he reported his superiors for drinking on duty and was subsequently harassed and bullied until he could take it no longer.   

To answer Lois' original question -- should veterans be considered a privileged class? Yes. Veterans are individuals who (in Canada at least) volunteered to put their life on the line to protect the rights and freedoms that way too many take for granted. If the veteran suffered any type of injury, physical and/or mental, the country should take care of them. If a business wants to extend a discount to veterans as a thank you for your service (or as a business ploy), that's up to the business. And veterans should take advantage of that.

That is all.


Offline Katiebee

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Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 06:46:26 PM
And now we go to the philosophy put forward by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel “Starship Trooper.”

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline JulesVern

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Reply #27 on: November 01, 2017, 12:35:07 AM
And now we go to the philosophy put forward by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel “Starship Trooper.”

Which is exactly how I read the subject line for these posts, and in that context, there should not ever be a 'privileged' class. Call it whatever you want but treating a group of individuals as better than 'regular' people I wrong.

That said, I do not have a problem with the benefits veterans get. They earn them doing a very difficult job and just about anyone who wants to be a veteran can join up. That's not privilege in my eyes.



Offline RopeFiend

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Reply #28 on: November 02, 2017, 03:28:56 AM
And now we go to the philosophy put forward by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel “Starship Trooper.”

* Troopers   :emot_kiss:

I was hoping someone was gonna bring R.A.H. up.  ;D  If I remember that novel correctly, the only people allowed to vote were military and ex-military.  I read so much of his stuff that I'm probably getting them all confused, though. ;-)  He used that concept in a few of his books from the late '60s through early '70s.

I have one paperback signed by Robert when I saw him in a Con back in the mid-'70s.

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #29 on: November 02, 2017, 04:11:15 AM
Actually Rope, you are only partly correct. Voting citizenship was granted in that novel after federal service, which did not specifically have to be military service.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #30 on: November 03, 2017, 07:27:28 AM
And now we go to the philosophy put forward by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel “Starship Trooper.”

Most of Heinlein's books had a very political slant to them (mostly against government or bureaucracy of some kind)....even my favorite book "Starman Jones" had slant against bureaucracy of some kind or another. Heinlein was very outspoken and he used his books to get his point across.

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Offline JulesVern

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Reply #31 on: November 03, 2017, 05:11:48 PM
And now we go to the philosophy put forward by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel “Starship Trooper.”

Most of Heinlein's books had a very political slant to them (mostly against government or bureaucracy of some kind)....even my favorite book "Starman Jones" had slant against bureaucracy of some kind or another. Heinlein was very outspoken and he used his books to get his point across.

Love,
Liz
 

True, but then I agree with him. Government is sadly a necessary evil. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Bureaucracy is an even worse evil whose necessity is much more debatable. :-p